Dame Carol Black proposed the opening keynote debate at this year’s MAD World, on 17th October in London, which will ask the big question we hear continually on the lips of wellbeing experts: “Individual interventions vs. institutional change – which is the key to a healthy, happy and productive workforce?”
Of course, it is both the individual and the organisation’s responsibility (and leaders’ responsibility too), but the purpose of this starting debate at the Leaders’ Summit is to showcase this, and to get everyone thinking and talking (for more information on the agenda, and to register see here).
Black will chair the debate, which will set the scene for the rest of the jam-packed day, with three esteemed leaders arguing each side of the debate – one of them being CIPD Chief Executive Peter Cheese.
He’ll be joined on his side of the discussion, arguing the case of institional change, by BBC Chief Medical Officer Dr Clare Fernandes and Vanessa Harwood-Whitcher, Chief Executive, The Institute of Occupational Safety & Health (IOSH).
Christian van Stolk, EVP, RAND Europe will pitch for individual interventions, joined by Dhavani Bishop, Head of Group Colleague Health and Wellbeing at Tesco and Kirstin Furber, People Director, Channel 4.
We caught up with Peter Cheese ahead of his appearance to find out more.
The past five years have seen a surge in the supply of health and wellbeing interventions designed to help individual colleagues build and maintain their own mental and physical health. This has been followed by a hyper focus on workplace culture. But which do you think makes the most difference?
I’m looking forward to the debate about this. I’ll be arguing the case for institutional change because organisations can make such a profound difference through their working cultures, how they train their managers and how they understand the triggers of stress.
That’s important before you think of a specific set of individual interventions that might help people. After all, it’s no good offering yoga classes if you’ve got a culture of bullying and harassment and employees are continually stressed out. Interventions won’t solve those problems. In fact, they could be counterproductive because people see it as a sticking plaster instead of addressing the fundamental issues.
You can’t grow seeds on rocky ground. I’m all for interventions done in the right way, but we’ve got to make sure we’re not just throwing a whole tonne of stuff at the wall and trying to make something stick. We’ve got to have evidence interventions really work and, at the same time, and organisations have got to understand and manage their culture.
What do you think has been the effect of economic uncertainty and budgetary pressures on wellbeing?
There’s more pressure to prove that what you are doing makes a difference. Business and finance leaders are questioning interventions more and asking ‘can we really show the outcome of what we’ve done?’. It’s really important that we understand the wellbeing links to business outcomes.
We have to remember we are not doing these things entirely to be altruistic or because they are the right things to do; they also have to be good for business. And we can measure it by looking at key data like absenteeism or retention rates.
What do you think of the various research studies – like those of Mind Gym – concluding, as written in the FT newspaper that ‘Your wellbeing plans don’t work’?
Yes, media likes a provocative headline. What we have to be incredibly careful about is that we are not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Wellbeing as a space has grown enormously and I sometimes describe it as a little bit like the ‘Wild West’ in recent years because there are so many people and companies diving into it. There’s so many interventions, from apps to other solutions, which don’t always bear a lot of scrutiny in the harsh light of day.
What’s important now is that we approach wellbeing in a methodical and structured way, and that we are analytical in our ability to provide the evidence which shows that an intervention is actually making a difference and also creating positive business outcomes. That justifies sustaining momentum behind it.
But in this space, which has become very crowded, we need to be very clear what is working.
Is there anything that concerns you about the way wellbeing is currently talked about?
We need to make sure we are connecting into expertise like Occupational Health and how we see this as part of the wider space of wellbeing. Businesses need to know where they can refer to deeper sources of expertise in mental and physical health and wellbeing. We can’t expect our line managers all to become experts in these areas, but they need to be aware and understand where to go to support their people as needed.
Line managers themselves are also under lots of pressures, so they need support too. From the top down, talking about wellbeing, helping to raise awareness and understanding, demystifying of destigmatising conversations around mental wellbeing are all important parts of driving supportive cultures. We need to start with some of this before talking about individual initiatives, and make sure we are realistically managing expectations of what individual managers can do.
How are you feeling about the impact of AI?
I think that, if we can really harness it, it could be the thing that allows us all to be more productive, to reduce the stress of many roles and many of the more routine tasks, and enable us to use our more human skills most effectively. But none of this will happen by accident and needs to be designed for – a human centred approach to job and organisational design enabled by AI and driven by clear principles that guide ethical and responsible application.
We also have to be aware of other effects of changing patterns of work. With AI there is an imperative for us all that people don’t get left behind and that we ensure a ‘just transition’.
It is also concerning to see issues of mental health through the growing isolation of some workers who feel disconnected and we have to watch that very carefully in our workplaces for the future.
In general, since the pandemic, do you think workplaces have become more or less stressful?
We know from our own CIPD research that stress has been growing in the workplace.
It’s depressing that, with all the progress in the world of work and with new technology over decades, that we still seem to be in a space where stress is growing.
There’s a lot of evidence that certain sectors such in parts of financial services and professional services, and even in healthcare, that the ‘work super hard to get on’ mantra is alive and well. A sense of older generations still saying ‘that’s how I got to where I got, so that’s what you’ve got to do’. We have to move with the times and younger generations rightly won’t tolerate this, and nor should we have done in the past.
But I think a big stressor for many people is technology and the pressure to be ‘always on’. We definitely need to manage technology better. France has obviously gone down the regulatory route but in the UK we tend to try to take a broader perspective, not immediately jumping to regulation.
I look forward to engaging with the new government on many of these issues and we can see there is interest.
What in particular would you like to see from a government perspective?
When you look at all the surveys about wellbeing it’s clear that happiness is not all driven by earning more money and buying more toys. We need to understand how people feel about their lives and their sense of contentment in different parts of the country. That can absolutely be measured, and they are really important. And we need to bake these ideas more into public policy and, as a society, measure how we are progressing towards goals related to wellbeing and happiness. But this all takes time.
You’re an optimist, though, so can you finish up with some hopeful words about progress so far and thoughts for the future?
We’ve made progress in recent years by talking about business measures that are broader than just financial, and the move towards ‘responsible business’ that does well by doing good. We are talking much more about wellbeing as an outcome and taking a multi-stakeholder approach.
Of course businesses have to satisfy financial interests, but now they’re also looking at their impact on employees, customers, suppliers, the communities they operate in and the environment. All these issues have been much more on the table than they ever have been before, and they all work together in creating long term sustainable businesses that are also positively influencing our societies and communities.
It’s a hard paradigm shift (from the sole purpose being profit) but it’s happening.
The Leaders’ Summit at MAD World is an event driving excellence in workplace culture, employee health and wellbeing
The Summmit on 17th October 2024, will bring together speakers and attendees from across sectors and with a range of job titles for two tracks of leading-edge content that showcase best practice and provide insights and inspiration for all those looking to achieve maximum engagement with initiatives, optimise investment, stay one step ahead and really make a difference.
The stellar lineup of speakers includes: Professor Dame Carol Black GBE FRCP FMed Sci; Peter Cheese, CEO, CIPD, Vanessa Harwood-Whitcher, Chief Executive, The Institute of Occupational Safety & Health (IOSH), Dhavani Bishop, Head of Group Colleague Health & Wellbeing, Tesco, Kirstin Furber, People Director, Channel 4, Dr Clare Fernandes, Chief Medical Officer, BBC, Christian van Stolk, Executive Vice President, RAND Europe, Andrew Gibbons, Group Head of Wellbeing, Recognition and Hybrid Working, HSBC, Karen Brookes, Chief People Officer, Sir Robert McAlpine, Jaimy Fairclough, Wellbeing Specialist – People Division, Sainsbury’s, Dr Femi Oduneye, Vice President Health, Shell International B.V. and many more. You can find out more and register to attend here.
You might also like:
