Elizabeth Rimmer is Chief Executive of LawCare, the mental health charity for the legal sector, which we are partnering with to launch our inaugral Legal Industry Summit at MAD World on 17th October in London (if you haven’t bought your ticket you can register and check out the full agenda here).
In this interview she tells us why the timing of the Summit is so important and what specific challenges face the legal industry which need to be addressed. She also shares which sessions in particular at this summit she is looking forward to.
LawCare is our charity partner for the legal summit stream at MAD World. Can you tell me about the charity’s purpose?
Yes. LawCare has been going since 1997 and we are here to support and promote mental health and healthier working practices in the UK’s legal sector in all three jurisdictions.
We support all branches of law including solicitors, barristers, trademark and patent attorneys, CILEx lawyers, paralegals, those training in law, as well as people working in non-legal roles within the sector.
Why is the timing of the MAD World Legal Industry summit so apt?
It has come at a significant time for the legal profession. With the increased focus on workplace mental health across all sectors, we are at that crucial point where we need to turn the discussion about the well-known mental health challenges in law, into tangible action to address them.
What do you hope the Legal Summit covers at MAD World?
I hope it deepens the understanding of why legal professionals are at particular risk, explores what we can learn from other sectors and offers practical strategies to mitigate the risks in legal workplaces to mental health.
We want to widen the discussion from workplaces responding to mental health issues once they have arisen, to the responsibility workplaces have to prevent them developing in the first place.
What do you think are the biggest challenges to overcome?
A big challenge we face in law is a lack of robust evidence of what actually works to support mental health at work.
For this reason, I am really looking forward to the session from Dr Kevin Teoh and Peter Kelly about what we can learn from approaches taken in the NHS and developing our understanding about the wider context of psychosocial risks at work and how these can be mitigated.
What other sessions are you particularly looking forward to?
Complementing this session is a panel discussion, with insights from private practice and in house, about creating psychologically safe workplaces across the legal sector, which has to be the bedrock of any healthy workplace. I am looking forward to learning and sharing experiences with others at MAD World.
How does LawCare support lawyers and those working in the legal profession?
We provide a helpline, webchat and confidential email service for emotional support. People can speak to our team of volunteers who have worked in law, and have been trained to deliver emotional support. This support can relate to their professional but also personal life.
What are the most common reasons people contact you?
Typically we get people contacting us saying things like ‘I’m worried I’m not cut out for law’. Or you might get someone at Partner level finding it difficult to manage a colleague and getting into conflict. Or it may be to discuss the day to day pressures of the job and they contact us to help them work out what they ought to do.
The most common reasons people reach out to us for support are stress, anxiety and career concerns.
Since Covid there’s been a surge in the number of people contacting us questioning if they still want to be a lawyer. I think the pandemic made a lot of people reflect on what matters most to them and wanting to have a sense of purpose and be in an environment which aligns with who they are and what they want from life.
Do you think there is more pressure on lawyers than in the past?
I think the pressure on senior lawyers is an interesting one. I think there is more pressure on their shoulders. From managing the expectations of younger generations to greater scrutiny from regulators, with new conduct rules around treating people fairly and the growing interest in people risk from insurers.
Then there’s the public interest and the reputation of law being called into question as in the case of the Post Office.
Is there anything that LawCare specifically campaigns on health and wellbeing wise?
We do a lot of advocacy around improving working practices and preventing people from developing stress, anxiety and burnout.
What would you like to see happen in the legal industry when it comes to health and wellbeing?
I’d like to see organisations take a more preventative approach to mental health and to identify and mitigate risks in advance.
There’s a tendency to offer access to counselling, education and EAP programmes, but a lot of that is reactive, once a mental health issue has already happened.
We need to be going much further upstream and thinking ‘what can we do to prevent people becoming stressed in the first place?’
We ran the ‘Life in Law’ study in 2021, which is the largest study into the culture and practice of law and how it impacts mental health in the UK. We’re doing it again next year. What came out of the 2021 study was that what people value most, in terms of mental health, is the opportunity for a regular catch up with their line manager, as it is this time that develops trust and understanding between colleagues. But when we asked people how many have this, less than half said they did.
We are advocating that we need to be doing a better job of how we manage people in law. It’s a cliche, but it’s true, people don’t leave a job, they leave people.
What are your views on the billings culture and health and wellbeing?
It’s a challenge as billable hours are just a measure of the time spent on a matter, rather than the quality of the work or that individual’s wider skills and abilities, but they are often the benchmark for determining what a successful lawyer looks like or career progression.
But the problem is that long hours are rewarded, we reward those that exceed their targets, which in turn encourages unhealthy overwork. But not everyone can work these long hours – carers, for example. But when it comes to promotion, what tends to happen is that people who bring the most money in, who are working the longest hours, get promoted.
Is the culture of law changing?
I think there is a growing recognition that culture is crucial and that we need healthier working environments in law, but how much of this is translating into actual change is hard to say, as there isn’t currently a robust way to measure this.
We are seeing new approaches to billing, such as value based pricing, more flexible and hybrid working and the increase use of technology which could be a useful tool to help legal professionals work smarter and be more productive rather than just work harder. Senior leaders are increasingly publicly engaging in the discussions around culture and mental health which I think has the potential to be a game changer.
Obviously the death of Pinsent Masons Partner Vanessa Ford was tragic and got much media attention. What positive outcomes do you hope this attention leads to?
There was an outpouring on LinkedIn about Vanessa, and I really hope we can harness that outpouring, and what people said, into action and not allow the words to become hollow. It’s very easy to write some words on social media to express concern, it’s much harder to actually make change happen. I would like to see this attention lead to a tangible commitment across the sector to put the mental health of people in law first and use that as the basis for reimagining how we work and deliver legal services.
The Legal Industry Summit at MAD World is committed to sharing strategies to improve mental health and wellbeing across the legal sector. Speakers include the CEO of The Mindfulness Business Charter Richard Martin, Senior Partner at Pinsent Masons Andrew Masraf and Dr Emma Jones, Senior Lecturer in Law at the University of Sheffield.
MAD World is on 17th October 2024, and will bring together speakers and attendees from across sectors and with a range of job titles for five tracks of leading-edge content that showcase best practice and provide insights and inspiration for all those looking to achieve maximum engagement with initiatives, optimise investment, stay one step ahead and really make a difference.
The stellar lineup of speakers includes: Professor Dame Carol Black GBE FRCP FMed Sci; Peter Cheese, CEO, CIPD, Vanessa Harwood-Whitcher, Chief Executive, The Institute of Occupational Safety & Health (IOSH), Dhavani Bishop, Head of Group Colleague Health & Wellbeing, Tesco, Kirstin Furber, People Director, Channel 4, Dr Clare Fernandes, Chief Medical Officer, BBC, Christian van Stolk, Executive Vice President, RAND Europe, Andrew Gibbons, Group Head of Wellbeing, Recognition and Hybrid Working, HSBC, Karen Brookes, Chief People Officer, Sir Robert McAlpine, Jaimy Fairclough, Wellbeing Specialist – People Division, Sainsbury’s, Dr Femi Oduneye, Vice President Health, Shell International B.V. and many more. You can find out more and register to attend here.
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